Interview of FABRICE ALLOUCHE by Serge TREFEU (2009)
Serge TREFEU: Hello Fabrice how are you, you grew in which place of France?
FABRICE ALLOUCHE: Hello, that goes very well, I am of the 18th of Saint Ouen’s door in Paris
How did you discover the world of the boxing?
Thanks to my father who had a store near Roger Paschy’s club, Yamatsuki Gym. My father was a friend with Roger and boxed Thai in his gym, he coach also the boxers in the events. At about 14-15 years I began attended during Thai boxing and at the beginning I did not like of the whole. Because I played football and I liked more this sport. But as one goes along, by taking the rhythm of the session of Thai boxing it has me like. And I have made my first fight in class C in 16 years. It was in the city of Nanterre in 3×2 mn against Bachiri, very popular boxer in English in the time, a pupil of Kouider (old champion). He was 26 years old while I was only 16 years old and I won at points…
It was in which time these first steps in Muay Thai?
It was in 1982
Do you remember French champions who evolved in this time?
Yes it was the ones of Yamatsuki because it was the most gym of time. There was Kouider, the brothers Desjardins, Gille Tyrolien, Christian Bafir, Jemi, they fought all in Holland, and they were the stars of time!
Roger Paschy training all this small world?
Yes it was the precursor of the Thai boxing in France and my first professor of Thai boxing, it is him who taught me the boxing. I am between the generation of Desjardins and that of Danny Bill but I am closer to the generation of Desjardins
This generation it was a little the one debuts of Muay Thai in France?
Yes at the former school it was many of English and of low kick. It was less technical, it was boxers more physical, the technique arrived in the course of the years. We had no video and we did not know the Thailand. And Roger Paschy it was a former karate, thus he was between the karate and the kick boxing. Our boxing was really centre on low kick and middle, the clinch we learnt him later by going in Thailand …
You stayed for a long time in Yamatsuki Gym?
Yes but there made for the time the brother Desjardins opened a gym to the city of Courneuve, the Derek Boxing Gym and as it was closer from my home I went to the Derek in more Roger had stopped little his sessions and took charge no more boxers
How much you made of fights during your career?
I have make 53 fights with 45 victories, 6 defeats and 2 draws. Most of my fights from 1983 till 1989 were for the “Big” Roger Paschy du Yamatsuki Gym and from 1989 till 1995 I made them for the Derek Boxing Gym, for the brothers Desjardins. Then I was independent helped by my friends André Zeitoun and Anthony Elkaim …
You fought only in Muay Thai?
Not I also fought in Kick boxing. In Thai Boxing I have make 43 fights with 35 victories and 2 draws. In Kick boxing 10 fights for 10 victories
What was the first title which you gained?
It was in 1985 to city of Bezons for the Junior French championship bantam weight in 53 kg, in 5 x 1mn30 against Kertoubi from ESN Gym, a pupil of Kouider. It is my first title which I gained!
In what year you left for the first time for Thailand?
I have made my first stay in Thailand in 1986 with Scalp and Léon of the boxers of the Derek Gym. We went to Captain Narris, it is him who it is occupied with returning the first Thai in France as Somsong, Attapong …
It was in which camp?
It was the Petningkrap camp or there was Wongpadhet a big champion of the Radja, there was also Somsong, Attapong. Somsong is one of the first Thai to come in France to fight, he fought Nikiéma, Prestia. I have made my first trainings in this camp and first year or I went there, they sent me to fight in the North to Chiangrai
You have made your first fight with elbows?
Yes I had only 8 fights in class C and it was my first fight in class A. I am made traumatize during 2 rounds, I was twice counted and in the third round in clinch I managed to prick him in knees and to abbreviate the fight. It was a beautiful experience because I was alone just with Thai which coach me and spoke little about English …
How many time you fought in Thailand?
I fought 9 times in Thailand. Four wins on points, two wins by KO and three losses in points …
You had the opportunity to fight in a big stadium of Bangkok?
Yes I fought Pepsi, big champion of the Radja. I met Pepsi in Radja in 1989, I lost in points against him after a big fight with elbows. Jaïd (World champion) had fought in the same evening against a big Thai champion, he had won at points. I also fought in the time with Jaïd Thai classified in Radja, have had lost in points but have had made the memorable fights with elbows, it was in 1988…
You really were in the French first ones to fight in this mythical stadium?
Yes especially that have us were in the small categories in 53-54 kg, and in Thailand there are a lot of people in these categories, have met boxers in the same weight. Furthermore in the time for a foreigner it was more difficult to fight in Radja than now. But thanks to Captain Narris who was a promoter and organized quite Wednesdays in Radja, have was able to fight. With Jaïd and Fabrice Payen we are among the French first ones to have fought the Thai champions with equal weight and classified in Radjadamoen Stadium!
You also fought in Japan?
Yes twice with a victory and a defeat. I met in 1998 a Japanese champion Shinya Sakuma for a world title of Thai boxing unified WKA-WKC in feather weight (57 kg), I lost in the points of little but I won the cup of the best fighter of the evening, cup offered by Fuji TV. The fight was balanced enough but in the 4th round I undergone an account. And over there what is disturbing also it is that the minutes of rest are not of 1mn30 but of only 1mn. The fight was close but I lose the fight all the same, there is nothing to say. Otherwise I beat Maeda by KO in the 2nd round in Tokyo for the semi-final World WKA in Kick boxing, it was in 1996 in 55 kg
You gained champion’s belt of Europe of Thai boxing, it was against whom?
Against the Belgian Osman to Liege in Belgium. It was in 1991 in feather weight (57Kg), I won at points. I lost the revenge, without title in game, against Osman in 1994 in the “Cirque d’Hiver” during a boxing show TV Canal Plus but there was 4 kg more in the favour. It was a very hard fight, I had replaced Khaled who had preferred to fight Lucien Deroy with equal weight that to accept Osman with 4 kilos of more…
You also gained a belt of “Champion of North America” in Thai boxing it was in which year?
Yes this title “Champion of North America” ISKA is opened to the foreigners. It was in November, 1998 to Fresno in the Nevada. I beat in points the Thai Nopadon of the camp of Kobal. Kobal during this evening had beaten my great friend regretted Rédouane Bougara (Peace in his soul). On the base I was in vacancy to see Rédouane and it is him who had found me this fight. In my corner there was Sam Berrandou, I won this fight thanks to my mental!
What are the champions that you met during your career?
They are champions of time, these names will speak can belong not to the young people from now on. I met in Thai boxing, Lamaria of the Lumpini Gym of Saint Denis for the championship of France in 1990 (win by KO in the 3rd round). Saïd Bensimed (Vice world champion of Full-contact), a renowned kick boxer, I beat him in points in Thai boxing in November, 1992 to the Sports stadium Marcel Cerdan to Levallois, live on TV Canal +.
Another renowned boxer, Bohadjar who was formed by Thai. I have made a draw in front of him for the French championship feather weight (57 kg) in Nanterre, in 1991. In June, 1993 to Stadium Coubertin in Paris, I beat Lataméne from Lumpini Gym of Saint Denis, having gone twice to the carpet to the first round, I win by KO 2th round. It was the big fight French, elected fight of the year by the specialist publications. In September, 1993, I beat in points the famous Dutch Michael Lieuwfat of the gym of Dekkers, it was in Anvers in Thai boxing for the European title unified WKA-IMF in feather weight (57 kg). A fight of madman, one of my hardest. I beat in Kick boxing by KO in the 5th round the Italian Marion Roberto in Avignon for my defense of world title WKA, it was in 1997, in 55 kg. For another defense of my title WKA in 1997, I beat Darius Jung (world champion WKA in Full-contact). He was unconquered in Full-contact in category 53 kg, he challenged me in 55 Kg for my World title WKA, it was in Varsovie in Poland. I lost in points having been counted in the 5th round, but I have never doubted mentally and I flattened him low kick to win by KO at the 6th round. It was a trying fight because I was at home, the public me booed and he was superior to me technically. But thanks to my corner, in particular my friend Anthony Elkaim, I knew how to find the mental strength to make him give up with my low kicks. In 1991 in Birmingham in England, in kick boxing, in 58 kg, I beat the big champion of Full-contact Montcoya from Los Angeles. I gained by KO to 7th round, KO in legs. It was a prestigious fight to be in the World classification Kick boxing WKA. I met the big champion Khaled in 1990 (defeat), the big Thai champion Anoukoun in 1988 (defeat). The big champion Pepsi (defeat). Hadj which is match to maker now, Carnio, and many of the others…
You fought in Muay Thai and in Kick boxing, in which one of these two disciplines you preferred to fight?
In Thai Boxing but I was a fighter in the soul, it is not too much the victory or the defeat which interest me. I had no pressure because I came to take knocks and give it, for me it was the holiday, to please the public!
What style of boxing you had?
I was a very physical boxer who advances. I worked in Boxing and low kick a lot but I also liked the clinch. But I believe that my big strength it was that I could be “kicked down” during 4 rounds, but I always had hopes in the 5th to return the situation, I don’t drop nothing…
In the jargon we call that “a generous boxer” little in Jo Prestia, it is what you were?
Yes it is a beautiful compliment because Prestia is a big champion, a reference!
Exactly what is what there were boxers who inspired you at the beginning of your career?
Yes André Richard Nam, Philippe Cantamessi, Jo Prestia, warriors, generous boxers…
Your father Daniel Allouche, one of the most known speakers of boxing, had the opportunity and the pride to present you during many boxing show, how you felt this experience?
It is difficult because no boxer can put himself in my place. You have to disregard psychologically, you have a pressure in more. In the changing room, the wait I was not afraid I knew always how to manage the pressure. When I went of the changing room to the boxing ring I was concentrated, in the fight. But it is true that when I went up on the boxing ring the fact of seeing my father it disrupt me a little, that was for me a pressure in more. When I won it was big one pride. But I think that if it was to redo I shall try to fight more abroad not to see my father on the boxing ring and not have this pressure moreover, to fight more relaxed…
What was your hardest opponent?
I think that it is against Pepsi, a big champion who had several belts of Radja. We made a hard fight, I lost in points with openings of in the pokes. My fight against Michael Lieuwfat was also one of the hardest. And that against Moncoya also who was a big champion of Full, a big memory!
What are for you the best boxers at present?
For me it is Farid Villaume. Because besides being a big champion, it is except the boxing ring somebody very humble. It is a reference and he still has of beautiful year in front of him. Otherwise there are the other boxers whom I know less well it is Pinca and Lidon who are of very good boxers. He also Kamel Jemel who is a friend, it is a big champion. We a little evolved together, we have to almost do to meet. I had the opportunity to advise it, it is also someone very humble. I appreciate so a lot Totof who has a constant regularity, in more it is someone my gym, the Derek Gym. There are many of the champions, I like Johann Fauveau, Mehdi Zatout, Albert Chey. We have the luck in France of credit note maintaining boxers of a very good technical level who are soaked by Muay Thai. Our generation was very physical and current that is much more technical. I think of the only criticism which I have for this new generation with regard to us it is that she is a little less mental. In the time as we had less the technique one did not go any more to the mental there. We did not ask the question if there were three or four kilos of difference, we did not calculate. What is not indeed but I think that in mental we were superior now in technique they are much superior to us. Another boxer than I was going to forget and which has me make vibrate it is Jean-Charles Skarbowsky. It is really one of the rare to have competed with the Thai champions to them and in the same weight…
When you stopped your boxer’s career, that what is what you have make?
With friends, in particular Joey Star, we went up a brand of garment which was called ” Come 8 “. At first we opened a shop of shoe then have created T-shirts. This brand took an important media amplitude thanks to the singers Joey Star and Kool Shen who were known and appreciated by the young people. It was the leadership of the group NTM, they carried the brand. For me it allowed me to learn a profession which I did not know, the communication, I took charge of the communication of the marketing, I learned on the job. I was rather cold and contained and it allowed me to open me more to people, to meet of the world, to learn more thing on me. And then to manage people also because at the end we were all the same forty employees in the company. We were under the fire of the media, has had a certain fame. The story lasted from 1999 till 2004, it was a beautiful experience…
Joey Star and Kool Shen you know them for a long time?
Yes for a very long time. Before they are singers, they were dancers and they came to training to the Derek Boxing in Courneuve as they were of St Denis it is close. It is over there that I the known them…
You realized a DVD ” KICK BOXING ANTHOLOGY ” which very well worked, how came to you this idea to select memorable fights and to put them on a DVD?
At the time of “Come 8″ as I well earned the keep and what financially that went, I decided to please. I thus suggested to Sami Kebchi (promoter), owner of his video bands, selecting fights with him and making an anthology of the fights which he had diffused. Normally have had to make him on some DVD. The first DVD worked well because I invested in the marketing a lot to make know the product, I took risks but that worked well. The second DVD was more difficult because it was distributed by Sony and Sony had made a fusion with BNG, further to this fusion he had a little war between the commercial and it fell at the time of the exit of the DVD which was badly diffused, thus there was a loss. Furthermore there were small concerns with a few boxers, as there was a media effect, they believed that they could take some money. But as Sami Kebchi was organizing, there was jurist’s vote caution which stipulated that” the images taken on a boxing ring, the owner is the organizer of the event “. We are not going to quote from name because it was not everything the boxers who made that, people took lawyers but they did not take money because I was protected. Thus I am say because there are troubles as that, and indeed I have said that they made him they even. And in the current day that is going to make five years and nobody made him. People noticed that it is difficult, needs to get back video bands, they are of hurdy-gurdies images it is necessary to work again them. To make people come as Charles Bietry (speaker) to comment, go to studio, work again the images, it is the work. And then it is of the investment, it is not everybody who can take out 30 000 or 40 000 euros and say themselves I am not sure to gain some money. But I enjoyed well myself, I took some pleasure, it is a good experience…
You are also at the origin of one magazine who is called ” 5 Styles “?
Yes I had one magazine ” 5 Styles ” that I created with a friend, the story lasted 4 years. Then I sold my parts, he always exists. It is the first one magazine free of the urban Hip Hop sport, music, fashion, movie…
Today what are you doing?
At the end of my adventure with the textile industry I rested little. Then as I had taken a lot of weight, I took back care of me, I have lose again of the weight. I have a diploma of BTS in dietetics and I have my instructor’s diplomas in boxing. And in Dijon I crossed a diploma of physical assistant. I thus decided to make of “coaching sportsman”. On the base it was for people who wanted to lose weight, reshape. Little by little I had a certain clientele, business managers, people lambda. I made of the personal coach, I went to company given by the sporting lesson to people who need to lose weight or to take back confidence in them. And little by little I have also lesson for people who want to learn the sports, fights of the self defense, the boxing…
Your past of boxer has you to serve for this new job?
Yes a lot in the analysis of people, to have a certain psychology, an approach of the persons. My experience of business manager in the textile industry also served me to manage people, manage the character and the personality of every different person. I have make formations of yoga and relaxation therapy which serve me very also in the understanding of people. People do not come to see me for same certain reasons persons come to lose weight, the others because she has of the stress and wants to evacuate him by going in for sport, the others because she it is made assault and she wants to learn a combat sport. But what is enriching in all these meetings, it is that I see quite in the daytime different people and that I have to question to understand their needs. I make of new formation to improve, for example I have make a formation in PNL, The PNL it is of the Neuro-linguistic Programming, it is to understand the gestural of people, their languages…
You make now sessions of massage, it makes however the physical preparation?
Yes it is one more. I noticed that I had a true donation for that. When the group NTM come back, they asked me to take charge of their physical preparation. When they made Bercy, they had five dates to make in this room and as the room is big, they link everything in daytime, it was physical as a fight. Thus they asked me to be with them in changing rooms, of drivers, to pay attention on the fact that they drink to the fact that they eat, their to make a warm-up. After I their is asked if that interested them to make sessions of massages before and later for the recovery. It pleased them and they were very satisfied because they wanted that I accompany them on all the dates of the tours. But I make especially these massages for women or high-level sportsmen, I include him for the physical recovery
They are massages close to Thai traditional massages?
Not they are massages Shiatsu and Californian because I have make formations on these two techniques of massage
How we get in contact with you for a personal coach?
It is by mouth with ear a lot but there is blogs which were created with information for those whom it interests
Sometimes you make these preparations in a gym of boxing?
Yes in a gym of 17 district of Paris. Because I take charge now of boxers’ preparation Professional as Brice Faradji (France Champion), Rachid Jkitou ( unconquered hope) and Jean-Paul Mendy (world challenger). When they have preparations for big events, I intervene as mental coach with them. I have him also make with another friend to me Fréderic Klose for his championship of world and Europe, in Boxing, last year. I have a preparation physical and mental for Yohan Fauveau for his fight against Farid Villaume. I have him also play on some players football, in particular Jérome Leroy. They were all very satisfied with my services. Thus I begin to go into the sports environment in the coach mental pure, because there is a demand…
The mental coach it consists of what exactly?
It is of the psychology. Many to discuss with the person, to analyze the possible problems which they has, in which side she must be reassured. See these trainings and to give some advice because from the outside it is easier to analyze. The advantage that I also have for the mental coach it is that I knew the high level in sport. In boxing there is a thing which is enormous it is that we have to be for the weight the D-day, we have a first fight against the weight. We have a fight against the public also, and the wait. Manage the wait in the changing room, the moment to rise on the boxing ring, to disregard the public when we meet ourselves in height on the boxing ring. Thus needs to analyze all these parameters, to adapt themselves to the person, to be for the listening. I use all my experiences of lives, I am 41 years old, my experience of business manager. I read books of psychology it also helps me. Advice of my father which are enriching. My father is someone passionate person who does not wait after the boxing to live in spite of he is a speaker, it is someone who makes a lot of voluntary work. This advice is always precious. Me I am for the teamwork in the trainings each can bring something to the boxers for his evolution, the trainer, the sparring partner, the cut man, the sports coach…
You have to question often in this kind of job?
Yes because in the life nothing is ever acquired. Even if I have skills, I am not satisfied, I always try to improve. I pay even coaches for me to coach, there is only for it that I would advance. He has to learn of everywhere in everything sports there…
I thank you for this interview and good continuation for all your projects
Thanks to you and I want to thank Roger Paschy who formed me. My father who not it is never involved by my career, he let me choose only even if sometimes I made errors, he always supported me. To my friend Antonio Ferrara for whom I make programs of trainings for his prison regime. The brothers Desjardins, Leon du Derek, Anthony Elkaim, André Zeitoun and Samy Khebchi for whom I fought 6 times with TV Canal Plus, the readers of SIAMFIGHTMAG and all those which I forgot…
Weight : 55 Kg
Number of fight : 53 fights. 45 wins. 6 Losses. 2 Draws.
Title : Thai Boxing : Vice World Champion WKA-WKC (1998). Europe Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994). Champion of North America ISKA (1998). France Champion (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992). France Junior Champion (1985, 1986)
Kick Boxing : World Champion WKA (1997, 1998, 1999). Europe Champion WKA (1996). France Champion WKA (1995)
Club : YAMATSUKI GYM and DEREK BOXING
Contact : firstname.lastname@example.org